Getting off the Rollercoaster - Going for Adoption

Wednesday, May 24, 2006

Now I'm clueless too

I’m not simply an IF, I am a clueless and tactless IF according to Juliet. I have turned her comments over and over, but it isn’t really helping. I certainly didn’t mean my comment as a personal indictment of her situation. Her response certainly felt quite like a personal attack though.
Don't bother getting involved, but if you do want to know what I am talking about you could look at the following link (I am not good at links). My tactless remark is the second comment - Juliet's is the long one, quite a bit further down.

There is lots I could say, particularly that I really don't judge anyone for whether or not they are as lucky as I am. My comment was about my reaction to Thalia's post. That's all. But actually, I think less said the better really. To be honest, I did just wonder whether to ignore it all completely and pretend nothing happened, but out there someone is angry, because I offended her, and I am sorry for that.

The weather is dreary and wet and I feel a bit the same.

I am aware how negative so many of these posts must sound. I think I should list some positive things :

  1. I have recently seen a chiropractor for the first time ever, and feel like 100 times better. Really hopeful that my neck and shoulder problems may be sorted out. Hurrah.
  2. It is R's 40th birthday in a couple of weeks, and I have booked a hotel with Michelin starred restaurant. We are going to do a 2 day cycle tour and finish up there. I'm really looking forward to it.
  3. Our garden is getting to look fantastic. We have worked really hard on it and spent loads of money, but it is going to be worth it. Lots of flowers but VEGETABLES!!! We have broad beans, peas, broccoli, cauliflowers, sprouts, purple sprouting, parsnips, early potatoes, sweet corn, artichokes, zucchini, butternut squash and pumpkins - and I am sure I must have missed something, but that will do!
  4. I did a walk in the Black Mountains in aid of Mountain Rescue (R's Team) at the weekend - 43km, 12 hours exactly. I am fit and strong and so grateful for that.

Genuine question - please don't bite my head off, but is it really SO hard when other IF's do get pg? Really? It's been so hard for all of us, it still is, but surely another IF finally pg should lift us up - it must mean there's hope for us all?

If you are someone who has had a lot of miscarriages, and are now pregnant, or have had a baby, please let me know. I do want that hope. I won't be angry at you.

Apologies for very strange post. Am in a very strange mood.


  • After 5 miscarriages, I had my youngest at 34y old. After 2 years of TTCing and 2 more miscarriages, I still have no personal understanding of why others don't find stories of success uplifting?

    I do understand the pain of not getting pregnant when it seems everyone around you is. Though of course my personal pain cannot compare to someone who has never had a child.

    But when someone else has success, to me that means it's possible, not a chance taken away from me.

    There is no limit to babies, and for me, hope feels better than bitterness.

    By Blogger Catherine, at 8:11 pm  

  • Vivien - sometimes things just hit too close to home for some people. I worry about offending people with my comments and posts sometimes. However, I keep telling myself that one of the major joys of blogging is that most people seem to understand that a lot of us are just finding our way through and what we say often is only in reference to ourselves (and sometimes we change our views even then).
    Try not to take anything from comments too much to heart. A lot of IFs are just in way too much pain and sometimes that gets turned into a lot of anger. Um, does it help if I promise never to flame you?

    By Blogger DinosaurD, at 8:45 pm  

  • Hi Vivien
    I'm thinking of you. I think maybe Juliet was a litle upset at her situation and unrealistically thought you should be sensitive to that even though you didn't know about it. It was very obvious to me that you were commenting on Thalia's lovely post.
    Your vegetable garden sounds scrummy. I hope the weather picks up. It will make you feel better I'm sure.

    By Blogger PortLairge, at 3:13 am  

  • Thank you so much for that. I know it's a bit silly but even this morning when I woke up I was STILL thinking about it, and am acutely aware that my post is really flakey - not a nice, rational response.
    Thank you for being supportive, it was just what I needed.

    By Blogger Vivien, at 8:43 am  

  • Hi.

    I'm someone who has had 5 mc (though a child before that) and I have drawn back from various online fora where women seem to get pg at the drop of a hat, and NOT lose it.

    But I always love to see success amongst others who are suffering recurrent miscarriage.

    By Anonymous Fuschia, at 11:15 am  

  • Vivien, I hope you're not worried about juliet's comment any more, having got this out there. I can see why she is sensitive to comments like this, but I also understand why you said what you said, and I thought it was lovely. It's hard to be sensitive to everyone's situation all the time - one of the perils of our environment is that it's all digital and there in typeface, not nuanced by our faces and bodies which make messages so much more complex and easy to understand.

    I wish I had teh hopeful story to offer you - I'm glad others have helped. Thinking of you.

    By Blogger Thalia, at 12:36 pm  

  • Fuck her. Seriosly. If she's that keen to take ofesen she has more problems than just you, my dear. There was absolutely nothing tactless in what you said to Thalia. Nothing at all.

    Personally, I wish that bitter single people would realise that someone who is in a couple shouldn't have to feel ashamed of it just because not everyone has been so lucky (or indeed so inclined).

    By Anonymous Lola Badeggs, at 1:10 pm  

  • Sorry. I myself am feeling tactles today. And devoid of typing skills, apparently.

    By Anonymous Lola Badeggs, at 1:13 pm  

  • Vivien,
    Don't let it bother you, I know, easier said then done.

    In a perfect world everyone would be in some relationship that there is love and support for each other, regardless of the combination. For those who have not found that relationship yet, I feel for them as that was me only 3 years ago. However, those of us that are in that relationship can not temper our comments to others or on our own blogs to be sensitive to everyone. We try very hard to not offend but still, if we are going to make sure to make everyone happy all the damn time then we would all have to stop blogging and providing support to others.
    Ok, hopping off the soapbox now. Hope this made sense and won't cause more problems. If it causes problems feel free to delete.

    By Blogger Shinny, at 3:28 pm  

  • I do wish it were possible to comment on these sites with something other than pure encouragement, without getting responses like ‘fuck her’. So often when reading I see that a person saying something even a little provocative immediately gets hounded. Surely if the comment was worded politely, it deserves a polite, albeit opposing, comment back? Certainly I don’t see that my comment to Thalia deserves 'fuck her'. I find it offensive. (Especially as I admitted some doubt as to whether or not I was being overly sensitive because of my own situation - and surely most infertiles know that feeling?)

    And I’m not a bitter single person – I love to read posts like Thalia’s (and now Vivien’s) which rejoice in good relationships. I’ve had them myself and still hold out hope for the future (I’m the same age now as Vivien was when she met her husband). Neither am I angry at Thalia's pregnancy, I'm not sure if this was implied or not. Sorry for myself maybe (who hasn't been sometimes?) but I agree with Vivien, every IF pregnancy should be a cause for rejoicing as each gives us all more hope.

    I just think that in the IF community we should think about the different categories of IF people reading and be thoughtful. Isn’t that what we wish clueless fertiles would do? My gut reaction was that Vivien hadn’t been thoughtful to single infertiles; and although I now see her heartfelt response to Thalia was just that – a heartfelt comment with no offence meant to anyone - I can only say that it caused me to be very sad for quite a while. Basically Vivien's comment made my own TCC experiences feel so much more lonely. I don’t know if there are any other single infertiles out there who sometimes feel excluded when reading these blogs? I know Reprogirl used to feel similarly but she’s stopped blogging now. All I’m trying to say is that infertiles so often feel sad because of a ‘throw-away’ comment by fertiles (such as ‘you can take my kids if you like’) and I – stupidly or not – ended up feeling sad in the same way because of Vivien’s comment and I thought that was worth making known to this community which prides itself on its empathy. Maybe not.

    To finish: (and please excuse the long post – but seeing as my name was being bandied about I thought I deserved the right of response) I apologise Vivien that my anger felt like a personal attack and I am truly sorry if it caused you any pain or upset whatsoever. You don't deserve that. And thank you for sharing so much of yourself in your own blog.

    By Anonymous Juliet, at 3:58 pm  

  • Dear Vivien,

    I'm sorry about the mood -- I can imagine how upset you are. I just wanted to say two things:

    1. A lot of things are painful without being insensitive. I had an experience that hit home recently when my father-in-law said some things that were very heartfelt and true for him but which inadvertently caused me and others pain. It wasn't insensitive, though -- it was simply painful to hear. I don't think he should have said anything differently. It's very seductive, when we are nursing our wounds -- and there are quite a few wounds in this neck of Bloglandia -- to imagine that others are being insensitive (because we all know so many people who are) when we are in pain. It's not always true. Sometimes we are just in pain, and others' words remind us of that. I'm sorry you're in a situation like that. It was a loving thing that you said.

    2. I feel so good when pregnancies work out for one of our club. It gives me great hope. Every hurdle cleared is another glimmer of hope for me.

    It's so tempting to feel singled out for punishment, or to feel aggrieved. It's not good for the soul, though -- it's the surest route to bitterness.

    By Anonymous Kath, at 9:13 pm  

  • I'm sorry, I forgot to add a note to Juliet: I do understand what you meant with your comment at Thalia's, and I wish you lots of strength and support on the road ahead. It's a lovely thing that you are doing, and I am hoping with all my heart that it works out beautifully for you.

    By Anonymous Kath, at 9:18 pm  

  • Okay I read your comment and then read Juliet's and I first wanted to say what Lola BadEggs said... then thought about it.

    All of us want a baby... and after multiple miscarriages I am thrilled when one of us gets off the island so to speak. Whether they be single, married, partnered, etc.

    Each of us has our own blog. One of the nice things is that we blog about our own world rather than someone elses. We give glimpses of our daily life, our thoughts, our fears, etc. Comments that are made regarding those posts should be about that post not about the infertility world in general. Your comment was appropriate to that post. It wouldn't have been appropriate to Juliet's blog.

    The bottom line we're all adults, our feelings may get hurt upon occasion and we as adults must choose how we are going to handle it... I think Juliet's comment was off base but as a married woman I can honestly say I'm not walking in her shoes. I used to fear I would. My shoes are different, and may be just as cruddy but they are my shoes and comparing them would be like comparing apples to a steak.

    I'm glad for your list of positives. Keep them coming and your birthday celebration sounds fabulous!

    By Blogger Sami, at 11:02 am  

  • I just read your comment and then the other woman's comment and she is clearly sensitive and touchy as she stated she might be. Your comment was totally appropriate for the blog where you were commenting.

    If you were on a blog written by a woman who was still single and going for pregnancy with purchased sperm, then it would have been a totally insensitive comment, and we'd all say shame on you.

    But for some people, our comments trigger something based on their own experiences that have nothing to do with the conversation at hand or the blog post.

    Case in point - did you see my latest blog post about a really good check up? In it I mention that my husband was going hunting for grizzly bear this weekend and one woman seemed to flip out about that. I could have responded and wanted to respond because I have definite opinions about hunting and also because she was commenting on my relationship with my husband but I refrained because I just knew she was dealing with her own issues that had nothing to do with me or my life or my relationship or my baby or my blog.

    You aren't clueless at all. You're a wonderful person navigating this complex world of miscarriage. Take care.

    By Anonymous aliza @ babyfruit, at 9:41 pm  

  • Vivien, I am sorry that you are fretting about this issue. We are all only human and sometimes the pain gets in the way.

    I know I have often written a comment in a rage and then deleted it as my rage and bitterness should not be deflected onto other bloggers.

    I wanted to tell a blogger yesterday that their husband sounded like a right twat but I decided to refrain out of politeness haha.

    By Blogger Pamplemousse, at 10:28 pm  

  • Vivien, the poster you mentioned said she thought she might just be being touchy. I agree with her on that. I wouldn't give it another thought, if I were you. If we censor every sentiment for fear of offending someone, we'd never speak at all.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:46 am  

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